Re: parents to whom were*sent* only one or two children
My parents adopted two when, after a long struggle with fertility it looked like my older sister and I would be their only blessings. Both "littles" (there's an eight year gap between me and the next) were adopted before I turned twelve and learned the "facts of life". It never occurred to me to question whether my parents were open to life/living according to Church teaching because it was clear that they were.
It’s a state of mind. Things can look the same from the outside (2.0 kids!) but be completely different on the inside. But what is inside is what radiates to others!
As always Leila and Phil, your perspective sheds so much light on the culture and what is / has happened in our families this last generation. As a thirty-something trying to make sense of it all, I am so grateful for you!
I am curious if you have seen the same thing I have seen in addition to this lack of children in many couples, in what I would call a “k” shaped birth rate. Let me illustrate..
I grew up in a very tiny town in the midwest, where everyone I knew - I sincerely mean 99% - had only 1 or 2 siblings. 3 children was the max and 4 was a huge exception (I can only think of 1). (My mother suffered from secondary infertility so we coincidentally also had only 3 in our family).
Fast forward to today, and the people and cousins I grew up with now fall very distinctly into two categories- those who are married and choosing to not have children, and those who (many- many!!) have more children than they themselves grew up with. It seems like such a strange phenomenon to me! Another anecdote to illustrate is that in my Catholic women’s group (far from the Midwest area I grew up in) we recently went around the room comparing number of children we have compared to our parents and it was almost 100% true that each woman had the same or *more* children than their parents.
My initial interpretation is that maybe the cultural differences between Christians / non-Christians in the last generation was very minimal, whereas in my generation the divide is much more pronounced. It almost seems like the culture has gotten so depraved we Christians have finally learned to take a bigger step out of the mainstream and in doing so have found the courage to live more radically Christian lives. (?)
Every fall, I lecture my Midwest born children about the glories of Doug Flutie‘s Hail Mary pass to Gerard Phelan and the 2004 ALCS. I cannot wait to see that movie on Netflix. Thank you for sharing.
Loved your commentary on openness to having kids. It is a balm to hear parents who’ve gone through it and have grown children. I’d love even more of your commentary! Perhaps we could hear your perspective regarding the worry that kids will become “lost” in a big family and suffer from want of attention or understanding. This is in the back of my mind as we have five kids already and are open to more.
Thank you! That’s a good idea! Let me just say — remember, a child who has siblings has more people who know him well to love and understand him, not fewer!
I also would be very interested to hear about your perspective on this. I am one of only three, but we were anomalous in the Catholic homeschooling circle I grew up in. As adults now, many of those kids from the big (8+) families have expressed to me that, while they love their siblings deeply, they do not wish to do as their parents did, precisely because of the lack of individual parental attention that there was in their homes.
I'm an only child, so I can only speak to my determination not to impose such loneliness on my own children, if I could help it.
I think we have to remember that raising children is not easy. We will all make mistakes, sometimes awful mistakes.
We have to forgive and try to do better and help others do better. The first volume of my Summa is all about family culture and what I've learned about doing your best to raise a happy, and if God provides, numerous, family.
I’m so grateful for getting the Lawler family’s rich perspective on openness to life. I have my own personal regrets over my selfishness in this area. I’m a Catholic convert in part because of some of the life issues. And I’m sacramentally forgiven for the past. But I should have had a better grasp on the sacrifice that is marriage because it’s what Jesus taught and showed us. For my part I won’t get a redo. Still, it is medicinal for me to listen to the unchanging Catholic truth from you two. I suspect my regrets would be met with incomprehension by the uncomprehending in my life. I don’t want to be told that contraception is really nothing. Of course it is no hope and no good thing. ( But my solid, Catholic priest is the only one I can count on to be straight with me about the horrors of sin and the glories of grace. That’s one reason I chose to enter the Church via his FSSP parish.)
For now, thank you for “speaking freely” in this episode the unpopular but perennial truths of the faith. And I will ask through the intercession of Mary for more light to come to me. God bless!
Spot on comment that big families are fun and that the kids love it - that’s so true! I’m 29 and the 3rd of 7 kids and I always talk about how fun it is to be a part of a big family. My older sisters and I are starting our families and my mother has gotten stopped in church and the grocery store multiple times by different women her age (but usually older) who ask about us and the grandkids and then lament that they don’t even have grandkids on the horizon. We were one of the only big families in our Catholic community, and now my mom is one of the only mothers with grandkids (and with kids who are even still practicing Catholics.)
Have you read “Hannah’s Children” by Catherine Pakaluk? It fits right in with this discussion. 5% of American women have 5 or more children, so her thought was to study those women and see what’s different about them and how we could encourage a wider reversal of the trend toward fewer children. It’s a really fascinating read. She interviews a number of these women and engagingly weaves their stories together with insightful comments and hard facts. Spicy but common sense public policy opinions are at the end!
Hooray, Shostakovich! Okay, now I will settle down and listen properly.
Re: parents to whom were*sent* only one or two children
My parents adopted two when, after a long struggle with fertility it looked like my older sister and I would be their only blessings. Both "littles" (there's an eight year gap between me and the next) were adopted before I turned twelve and learned the "facts of life". It never occurred to me to question whether my parents were open to life/living according to Church teaching because it was clear that they were.
It’s a state of mind. Things can look the same from the outside (2.0 kids!) but be completely different on the inside. But what is inside is what radiates to others!
As always Leila and Phil, your perspective sheds so much light on the culture and what is / has happened in our families this last generation. As a thirty-something trying to make sense of it all, I am so grateful for you!
I am curious if you have seen the same thing I have seen in addition to this lack of children in many couples, in what I would call a “k” shaped birth rate. Let me illustrate..
I grew up in a very tiny town in the midwest, where everyone I knew - I sincerely mean 99% - had only 1 or 2 siblings. 3 children was the max and 4 was a huge exception (I can only think of 1). (My mother suffered from secondary infertility so we coincidentally also had only 3 in our family).
Fast forward to today, and the people and cousins I grew up with now fall very distinctly into two categories- those who are married and choosing to not have children, and those who (many- many!!) have more children than they themselves grew up with. It seems like such a strange phenomenon to me! Another anecdote to illustrate is that in my Catholic women’s group (far from the Midwest area I grew up in) we recently went around the room comparing number of children we have compared to our parents and it was almost 100% true that each woman had the same or *more* children than their parents.
My initial interpretation is that maybe the cultural differences between Christians / non-Christians in the last generation was very minimal, whereas in my generation the divide is much more pronounced. It almost seems like the culture has gotten so depraved we Christians have finally learned to take a bigger step out of the mainstream and in doing so have found the courage to live more radically Christian lives. (?)
Yes, I agree! It seems like a huge number fall off with no hope, and a minority have the iron enter their souls and just go for it.
Thanks for this comment! I will think more about it!
Every fall, I lecture my Midwest born children about the glories of Doug Flutie‘s Hail Mary pass to Gerard Phelan and the 2004 ALCS. I cannot wait to see that movie on Netflix. Thank you for sharing.
Loved your commentary on openness to having kids. It is a balm to hear parents who’ve gone through it and have grown children. I’d love even more of your commentary! Perhaps we could hear your perspective regarding the worry that kids will become “lost” in a big family and suffer from want of attention or understanding. This is in the back of my mind as we have five kids already and are open to more.
Thank you! That’s a good idea! Let me just say — remember, a child who has siblings has more people who know him well to love and understand him, not fewer!
I also would be very interested to hear about your perspective on this. I am one of only three, but we were anomalous in the Catholic homeschooling circle I grew up in. As adults now, many of those kids from the big (8+) families have expressed to me that, while they love their siblings deeply, they do not wish to do as their parents did, precisely because of the lack of individual parental attention that there was in their homes.
That's sad, honestly.
I'm an only child, so I can only speak to my determination not to impose such loneliness on my own children, if I could help it.
I think we have to remember that raising children is not easy. We will all make mistakes, sometimes awful mistakes.
We have to forgive and try to do better and help others do better. The first volume of my Summa is all about family culture and what I've learned about doing your best to raise a happy, and if God provides, numerous, family.
The main thing I have to say is what I wrote here, about how the couple may not have the children they think they will if they don't "plan" (it's more edited in my book -- this post was me just easing my readers into my perspective): https://likemotherlikedaughter.org/2014/04/the-third-secret-to-destruction-proofing-your-family/
Listened to your first half.
I’m so grateful for getting the Lawler family’s rich perspective on openness to life. I have my own personal regrets over my selfishness in this area. I’m a Catholic convert in part because of some of the life issues. And I’m sacramentally forgiven for the past. But I should have had a better grasp on the sacrifice that is marriage because it’s what Jesus taught and showed us. For my part I won’t get a redo. Still, it is medicinal for me to listen to the unchanging Catholic truth from you two. I suspect my regrets would be met with incomprehension by the uncomprehending in my life. I don’t want to be told that contraception is really nothing. Of course it is no hope and no good thing. ( But my solid, Catholic priest is the only one I can count on to be straight with me about the horrors of sin and the glories of grace. That’s one reason I chose to enter the Church via his FSSP parish.)
For now, thank you for “speaking freely” in this episode the unpopular but perennial truths of the faith. And I will ask through the intercession of Mary for more light to come to me. God bless!
God is so good! And the littler we are, the more people will see His glory! All is grace!
Spot on comment that big families are fun and that the kids love it - that’s so true! I’m 29 and the 3rd of 7 kids and I always talk about how fun it is to be a part of a big family. My older sisters and I are starting our families and my mother has gotten stopped in church and the grocery store multiple times by different women her age (but usually older) who ask about us and the grandkids and then lament that they don’t even have grandkids on the horizon. We were one of the only big families in our Catholic community, and now my mom is one of the only mothers with grandkids (and with kids who are even still practicing Catholics.)
Have you read “Hannah’s Children” by Catherine Pakaluk? It fits right in with this discussion. 5% of American women have 5 or more children, so her thought was to study those women and see what’s different about them and how we could encourage a wider reversal of the trend toward fewer children. It’s a really fascinating read. She interviews a number of these women and engagingly weaves their stories together with insightful comments and hard facts. Spicy but common sense public policy opinions are at the end!