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Interesting, thanks. I also changed on communion and veiling at the same time - not a coincidence I think - and it wasn't so much a decision as a natural progression which I didn't think about much. I don't like the mantillas, some of them are so flimsy and so transparent they are not worth wearing, plus I have very curly hair, so I use a large cotton scarf which does the job well, doesn't cause too many problems with my hair and also, given the absence of heating, keeps me warm in the winter. Though I have been known to wear a woolly hat in the depths of winter, which is a common choice in my church for obvious reasons!

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Sep 2Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

This is very similar to my reason for wearing a head covering for over a decade. Simply, Paul says so. None of the arguments *against* veiling seem very convincing. So what if it's sourced in the time period? So what if it makes me look prettier (which it did when I was young and now makes me look very ugly)? He said so, and it's really such a small thing to be obedient over.

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Exactly!

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Sep 2Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

Thank you for sharing your thoughts on this, really enjoyed them. I entered the Church six years ago and started veiling about two years ago. The Church I have always attended had a TLM and a very beautiful and reverent NO. I didn't know anything about all the politics and drama surrounding the TLM until TC came out, which shocked me and caused great pain - I truly had no idea as a new ans naive Catholic who attended a parish with both! I had attended the NO until the covid shutdowns and then switched to TLM. Fell in love. Anyway, TLM is no longer allowed at our Church since TC, it is now the NO in Latin. I didn't have a real intelligent or even spiritual reason or anything to start veiling except that I could no longer go to the Mass that Catholics had attended for 1,500 years, but I could cover my head as women had done forever until 1969 or whatever it was. Democracy of the Dead and all that, I figured if they did it I should. Interestingly more women, such as myself, have started veiling at my parish since the TLM was taken away.

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Yes, you say it very well! Why not do what those going before us in more faithful times did?

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Sep 2Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

These are the exact same reasons (scripture and tradition) that caused me to begin veiling a year or so after my 2019 conversion. Shortly afterwards I began receiving on the tongue while kneeling, sometimes very awkwardly with small children in tow. At first it was nerve racking and after the covid episode all of us receiving on the tongue were forced to go last, and so to this day, so we are a sort of spectacle in our Novus Ordo parish. I am usually the only one veiling, but I have gotten used to it. I too live over an hour from a Latin Mass so we do not go very often. I have found that when you step out with courage for trying to the right thing, God gives you more courage. We can only attempt to change the Church in our little sphere, but we must be faithful stewards in that sphere God has given us. At least we must try!

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Thank you for sharing your reasons! It's really making me think more critically about my own attitudes towards veiling. I've never worn one b/c I didn't want to stand out, but you've made me realize it's not about me at all (duh). :) I like the idea of visibly encouraging our priests to embrace the more traditional ways.

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I also began receiving Communion kneeling and on the tongue in 2020, which already draws some attention (that little grunt when I get back up), but that doesn't bother me. :)

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Thank you for your giving your reasoning. Myself, I found that in confession, I was told repeatedly to turn to Mary for intercession, for strength, for meekness, for humility. I finally actually looked at her one day. Her head is covered, not in lace, not with a doily that is better suited under the flowers on her altar, but with a cloth that conceled her hair but still set back unlike the sisters' habit. I decided that if I was to turn to her, to model her, I could at a minimum veil as she does while in front of her Son. I changed what I wore to Mass that Sunday, making my dress more intentional and covering my hair with a lovely silk scarf. My young girls followed my dress and my boys started to wear suits. I noticed then that their behavior in the pew changed dramatically. We weren't the only ones, but the only family that looked as we did in our sparsely attended Mass. Years later, we started attending TLM. I was so comforting that we already "dressed as if we belonged" and with toddlers in tow.

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

I've been wearing a veil for about a year and a half, and though I feel strongly about doing it, I don't love mantillas. I'm trying to picture how you wear a scarf. Can you post some photos so I can see how you do it? (Do you use a rectangular scarf and is it solid or does it have a print? Do you tie under your chin or behind your hair. You are always so good at explaining the practical aspects of things like this!)

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Sep 3·edited Sep 3

Yes to this! I would love more practical thoughts on the matter. I realize my circumstances are different, but I do think there are a lot of logistical considerations for the married woman with small children. I often have a nursing baby and like to wear a scarf around my neck for modesty reasons should I need to nurse discretely during Mass. Two scarfs (one for the head, one around the neck) seems a bit excessive. Or even if I could forgo the nursing scarf, there remains the problem of the squirmy/grabby baby who is constantly getting tangled up in my head covering. Could the scarf be tied behind the head, at the nape of the neck, to better secure it? In this case, should I secure it before I leave home, rather than being stuck in the awkward position of trying to tie it as I'm herding all four (little) kids into morning Mass?

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

I’m not sure how I ran across them, but there is a website that sells different types of headcoverings of all kinds of styles…it’s called “Garlands of Grace”. I wonder if one of their styles would be convenient for you. https://www.garlandsofgrace.com/

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Those are so pretty!

If you have a sewing machine, you could make them easily.

I think one thing that makes them so attractive is having a lot of hair to support them. My hair is shorter... it's not super short but I can't do a bun to hold up a covering like one of those.

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Yes, it needs to be practical in your situation. I think it's fine to have it be "stylized" i.e. not a technical complete covering or veil, just as the priest's maniple is "stylized" to represent what it used to be, literally a cloth on his arm to wipe away sweat.

So an enlarged headband or small kerchief would work. I see many nursing moms wearing hats. It just seems more secure!

And yes, I will wear a veil if I'm also bundled up with heavy winter items including a woolen scarf. Two scarves is just too much! I think I might try to knit myself a beret that has an open weave, maybe?

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

I'm Orthodox, but also veil, and most women who veil in the Orthodox church use a scarf, wrapped the way Leila describes below. It is a little tricky with squirmy babies, but manageable. In the winter, I will wear my scarf around my neck outside, and pull it over my head as I enter the church, so I don't have to manage two (granted, I live in Texas so it's never *that* cold, but I've done this visiting family in Canada too). Or I'll put it on in the car on the way to church. To keep it out of baby's way you simply tie the ends behind your neck, as you suggested. It fits snugly and there isn't much to get tangled in. I also have it do double duty as a nursing cover, though our church has a nursing room for this, so I'm not doing it in the middle of the service. I leave the scarf over my head but unwrap it and pull it so one end is short (touching my shoulder) and the other long enough to drape over the baby. It's a bit fussy but it works fine. I also have a poncho-style nursing cover (the We are Amma Cocoon-highly recommend) that I will wear if I need to nurse frequently. It's stylish enough to leave on over my dress (so I can fix my scarf once it's on and then leave it), adds some warmth in the winter, and makes it super easy to nurse wherever. I hope that helps!

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I am Orthodox and many women in my church will drape a scarf beautifully like this lady: https://media.pravoslavie.ru/389894.p.jpg?mtime=1662386533

Others will tie it on kerchief-style more like this: https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEjdaIP05PcF7HCW8MzcXRxRNX79ddZ86GYkoQVytr5kY7799cModssp-3DNBOTr6GVdzUVDNsCL952CcpIk8ByJaeDs4JvB6zYKpjMMX-GlEUJcXUx5czn255s48AP3KzqU9W9wKZ5Ow4-W/s1600/9qYcXuBSH2Q+%25281%2529.jpg

Neither of those work for my combination of hair type and grabby babies, so I bought one of these kerchief-style veils:https://www.etsy.com/shop/EvintageVeils?ref=nla_listing_details&section_id=19947185 I put it on in the car and it usually stays put through a two-hour liturgy.

A hat also works.

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I do mine like the first, but ends just loose in back.

Love the second one!

The third would be very easy to make too! A little piece of elastic sewn onto the ends of a small veil.

My granddaughter (11) has one my daughter found somewhere that is so darling. It's like a little lace cap with that sort of way of keeping it on.

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I have many long scarves of different patterns. I have worn them around my neck for years in all but the summer months and even then sometimes in the cool evenings, because I hate having my neck and shoulders chilled. I find that I can be warm with the scarf and not need as much warmth on the rest of my body... problems of a woman "of a certain age" LOL

I don't know if I can post photos -- I really do not love how I look with them on my head and don't know how I would get pics, but I will try.

I just pick them up at thrift/consignment stores or on sale...

Some are cotton, cotton/linen, rayon...

I usually put it on my head with the ends hanging down, then cross the ends and put them in back, so they are crossing under my chin. Kind of like the third picture down on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head_covering_for_Christian_women

That's the opposite of how I wear the scarf with a sweater or dress or under a jacket, which is with the center in front and the ends going around and coming back to the front and each end tucked into the other side. Like the first example here: https://roamoften.com/blogs/news/how-to-tie-a-scarf

Since I'm almost always going out with a scarf done like that, I have it handy to pop over my head. I just take it off and re-wrap it.

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“It’s now what I always do no matter where I am, in the Presence of Our Lord and for the sake of the angels”. What a beautiful thought regarding this topic…”In the presence of the Lord and for the sake of the Angels”.🙏🏾🕊️🙏🏾

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

I discovered a personal wound earlier this year when I noticed a sort of anguish at my pastor's remarks about Eve coming from the rib of Adam. Surprise to me, I oriented my whole life towards motherhood and cherish my femininity. As you might imagine, there is more to the story, but i will spare you. At the time I considered covering my head and found the thought so offensive and annoying. I knew that was a sign I needed to start. I still find it annoying and am slightly affronted by it tbh, the observations about covering sacred vessels etc. do not seem to move me. But I'm glad to offer something that gives me that burn to our Lord. The same for kneeling in the communion line, I honestly love the opportunity for mortification at that moment because it feels like such a wild petition for greater faith in the True Presence. I am looking forward to your thoughts on kneeling during communion. I kneel so much when visiting churches, but I live an hour outside of Seattle (where I spent the first 15 years of my childhood and formation in the Church) and there are some churches up there where I can't bring myself to receive except in the hand. I'm not prepared to be denied the Eucharist in front of my children at the same parish where I received my first communion. And I decided I don't want to miss out! I could elaborate more, but my thoughts are clunky. Very interested in Phil's book The Faithful Departed. I'd be happy to know more about Boston Catholicism. Regional culture within the church has had a tremendous impact on my own experience.

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I simply won't receive if I think there's an issue. It's not necessary to receive (other than once a year at Eastertide but obviously that doesn't apply).

I also try very hard not to go to a Mass where things are to that point. It's not going to be a good Mass in the sense even of being reverent to Our Lord and not having abuses. If I have to (e.g. an event I can't miss), I will either kneel or just not go to HC.

I believe your experience in Seattle had a great impact on you! It's a region that has endured GREAT abuse from a TERRIBLE bishop. I remember going to Mass there and wondering what the heck was going on...

I think you will love Phil's book. It's unexpectedly good!

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

I appreciate this reasoning a lot! Years ago I asked my father, who grew up largely pre-Vatican II, if women used to wear actual veils all the time at Mass. His response was "no, only on special occasions." But, obviously, they would wear something on their heads to Mass all the time. It kind of relieved me of the resistance I had about veiling, which was mostly feeling like that was my only option. I do have a veil I wear sometimes, but I have been trying to make a more concerted effort to wear a head cover of some sort to Mass in general. I feel comfortable with this arrangement for the meantime.

As a side note, I know a lot of women who veil at regular Masses, but sometimes it cracks me up at the contrast I see (mostly at a daily Mass or some unrelated service in a church) : beautiful, lacy veils with jeans and t-shirt! LOL

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The contrast is silly! Sometimes at daily Mass I'm wearing my "work" clothes for the day (a day of gardening or other dirty chores). It feels dumb to wear a lacy veil! I will wear one of my long scarves... but I probably still look silly! I should wear a skirt but sometimes there won't be a chance to change clothes.

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

I love your reasons, Leila. I’m your very age, and have covered my head at Holy Mass for the last few years as well. What I don’t have is an adequate answer to the question about “Why just at Mass?” If we do it to denote submission to authority, then that should be 24/7. If it is to be done out of reverence for God’s holy Presence, then that is likewise a perpetual thing. If it is to be when we pray (approaching the throne of God) then, again, we should be lifting our hearts to God always. This last point came home to me when I decided to veil for morning and evening Office (I’m an Oblate, but widowed, living alone). Why at that formal prayer but not for Holy Rosary, Angelus, or Chaplet? Why not always?

I grieve that our culture doesn’t have a valid outlet/manifestation for this hierarchical reality. In today’s Office reading for Saint Gregory, he lamented what he had to do after leaving monastery to be installed bishop and sent to England. There were many sacrifices he made to be amenable to people, and that seems to be my understanding of what we must do to make the Gospel attractive to an unbelieving world. Being too odd (anachronistic) won’t convince anyone, but so much is lost in embracing the modern world.

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Sep 3Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

This is a snippet from Saint Gregory (about making the faith attractive):

“I am often compelled by the nature of my position to associate with men of the world and sometimes I relax the discipline of my speech. If I preserved the rigorously inflexible mode of utterance that my conscience dictates, I know that the weaker sort of men would recoil from me and that I could never attract them to the goal I desire for them. So I must frequently listen patiently to their aimless chatter. Because I am weak myself I am drawn gradually into idle talk and I find myself saying the kind of thing that I didn’t even care to listen to before. I enjoy lying back where I once was loath to stumble.”

Obviously the focus is different (speech vs veiling) but the overall point holds.

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I wish I knew what you do about that bishop!!! I think I was baptized by him as an infant. My parents were part of a funny, sort of Catholic hippie young adult program when I was a baby and Archbishop Hunthausen baptized me. I was seven months old at the time and according to lore, kissed him on the lips! I think I had just acquired the skill? I have a hunch that understanding whatever it is that happened under his leadership would help me fill in my own story a little better. Maybe nothing crucial, but it would be good to know! Perhaps I should poke around on the internet.

I heard a few times while growing up that the PNW is a mission district of the Catholic church and it makes sense to me. There are things a little scrappy and wild going on out here. On the one hand there is something so wild and real and thrilling about living in that environment and of course on the other hand I'm sad that things were so confusing to me as a child and all of my poor Catholic school classmates, so so many of whom seem to be lapsed or never have had the faith in the first place. I'm certainly trying hard to guide and shield my own children in this place.

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Sep 5Liked by Leila Marie Lawler

As a Catholic man who grew up in the early 60's and remember quite well when the wearing of veils was discarded as well as the men wearing of suits, coats and ties, I have personally witnessed through the decades a diminished faith and respect for the Eucharist and the Mass. Dressing up your best to honor our Lord is expected. Customs and traditions of the Catholic faith are what sets the faith apart from the Protestants. Be proud of our faith in everything including customs, traditions, practices. These should not change with time. Now we have the faithful going up the communion line sporting their favorite sports team jersey, and wearing swim trunks and flip flops up to communion. Its pathetic and no wonder why the belief in the true presence of Christ in His body has dwindled. We veil all that we honor. the tabernacle is veiled. the Blessed Mother is veiled, a bride is veiled. Women should be proud that the Church honors women. As a man, I actually find it attractive to see a woman veiled. The modesty is verry attractive to a man. We need to return back to our Catholic traditions and be Catholic in all aspects. Thanks Ladies for carrying the torch on this issue.

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