It's remarkable that you put this out just after I was celebrating private Mass. During Mass, I was hit with thoughts of how the hatred of Private Mass (including it being banned at St. Peter's Basilica) is so destructive of priestly identity.
The more I experience concelebration, the more it hurts my soul. It's so awkward, so casual, so unfitting. There's a LOT more to say about it, but mainly I just want people to acknowledge what they are really SEEING.
In seminary, the arrangement of the chapel was awful. The tabernacle was still where the sanctuary used to be, but the altar was front of the middle of the wall on the left (from the perspective of the door).
The clergy used the quadrant on the far left. At Mass, you'd see albs (no cincture) and stoles, with the priests concelebrating from their seats. They only approached for Communion.
And for the laity, honestly, I think it all incites a weird mixture of cringiness and envy.
Whereas I notice when I see, for instance, the pastor acting as deacon or subdeacon for the new priest at a High (TLM) Mass, I am filled with gratitude and feel very happy to be on the receiving end of what they are doing, not for me directly, but for God.
How many people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Just one, but everyone benefits from the light. How many priests does it take to offer the holy sacrifice of the mass? Just one, and everyone present still benefits from it!
I would just like to know when this particular Mass was (con)celebrated? I watched the televised “solemn prayers” the evening of Saturday, December 7, with the many sundry & assembled dignitaries (most of whom, from all appearances, seemed to have absolutely Zero idea of what was going on) in the Cathedral where they were gathered.
Suddenly, I found myself feeling just as bewildered when the “solemn prayers” ended - after what seemed to have been only & precisely one-half(!!) of the Mass being said (and not even the Gospel having been read by any of the priests who were there!).
I found myself saying out loud, “WAIT! What just happened? Did they really only say One-Half of the Mass and also LEAVE OUT the Gospel?! What world am I living in right now??”
Full disclosure: I speak French, have lived in France, and have participated in many Masses there, said in French. But you don’t really even HAVE TO speak French - if you’re Catholic and you know the order of the Mass, you can follow a Mass said in French, at least somewhat adequately & reasonably.
I just want to know if what I saw televised that night was actually what happened? I would love nothing more than to be wrong about it, but I’m afraid I may be correct about it. And it truly breaks my heart.
Are we so “woke” now that we can’t risk offending anyone who isn’t Catholic by subjecting them to the actual and complete Sacrifice of the Mass, including the Eucharist, which heaven forbid, might make someone feel “left out” or hurt their little “feelings”? Can anyone tell me what happened? If what I saw was really what happened, surely Mother Mary is weeping in Heaven over it.
No, it wasn’t the consecration of the altar that I was watching; it was the opening ceremony of the cathedral, where the bishop with the crozier used it to bang on the doors before opening them, then entering in and leading a ceremony of “solemn prayer” with many world leaders and various dignitaries, including many of the workers who labored to complete the restoration. I was hoping this was going to be a Mass, but it was not - it was the first half of the Mass - only! I don’t know what it was supposed to be, but it wasn’t what I was hoping it was going to be! 😳😭
I keep wondering if that “altar” is supposed to represent the Church as a Ship - that’s sort of what it looks like, I guess? 🤷♀️
I wish they had built a beautiful old-fashioned Traditional altar, with Christ in the tabernacle on the altar - I keep wondering where the tabernacle is, too. What world is this we’re living in now?!
Is the priest a Jedi knight, able to make the Force shoot through his hand without contact? Or must he not rather hold the bread in order to consecrate it?
I wonder if there is a defect of form going on with the air-consecration performed by the concelebrants. Perhaps Dr. K can let us know.
I’d love to know more about the difference between the theology/practice of concelebration in the Novus Ordo and the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, as the latter is an apostolic rite which allows for concelebration, although the iconostasis makes the optics of it profoundly different (I.e. less obvious to the laity). (What I don’t mean to suggest is that there’s necessarily a place for it in the Roman Rite even if there is in the Byzantine; there’s a great deal of room for liturgical diversity, and that means respecting the Rites for what they are—with respect to the Roman rite, it seems concelebration has gone hand in hand with a diminishment of the hierarchical celebration of a High Mass with priest, deacon, and subdeacon, even when the latter two offices are filled by priests).
It's remarkable that you put this out just after I was celebrating private Mass. During Mass, I was hit with thoughts of how the hatred of Private Mass (including it being banned at St. Peter's Basilica) is so destructive of priestly identity.
That's amazing.
The more I experience concelebration, the more it hurts my soul. It's so awkward, so casual, so unfitting. There's a LOT more to say about it, but mainly I just want people to acknowledge what they are really SEEING.
In seminary, the arrangement of the chapel was awful. The tabernacle was still where the sanctuary used to be, but the altar was front of the middle of the wall on the left (from the perspective of the door).
The clergy used the quadrant on the far left. At Mass, you'd see albs (no cincture) and stoles, with the priests concelebrating from their seats. They only approached for Communion.
What do you think that looked like for us?
It's terribly deforming!
And for the laity, honestly, I think it all incites a weird mixture of cringiness and envy.
Whereas I notice when I see, for instance, the pastor acting as deacon or subdeacon for the new priest at a High (TLM) Mass, I am filled with gratitude and feel very happy to be on the receiving end of what they are doing, not for me directly, but for God.
I see too many cooks in the kitchen! 😂
Too many cooks in the kitchen ends up ruining the soup, or the meal.
Concelebration always looks like a group Amazon Prime online ordering session.
How many people does it take to screw in a lightbulb? Just one, but everyone benefits from the light. How many priests does it take to offer the holy sacrifice of the mass? Just one, and everyone present still benefits from it!
I would just like to know when this particular Mass was (con)celebrated? I watched the televised “solemn prayers” the evening of Saturday, December 7, with the many sundry & assembled dignitaries (most of whom, from all appearances, seemed to have absolutely Zero idea of what was going on) in the Cathedral where they were gathered.
Suddenly, I found myself feeling just as bewildered when the “solemn prayers” ended - after what seemed to have been only & precisely one-half(!!) of the Mass being said (and not even the Gospel having been read by any of the priests who were there!).
I found myself saying out loud, “WAIT! What just happened? Did they really only say One-Half of the Mass and also LEAVE OUT the Gospel?! What world am I living in right now??”
Full disclosure: I speak French, have lived in France, and have participated in many Masses there, said in French. But you don’t really even HAVE TO speak French - if you’re Catholic and you know the order of the Mass, you can follow a Mass said in French, at least somewhat adequately & reasonably.
I just want to know if what I saw televised that night was actually what happened? I would love nothing more than to be wrong about it, but I’m afraid I may be correct about it. And it truly breaks my heart.
Are we so “woke” now that we can’t risk offending anyone who isn’t Catholic by subjecting them to the actual and complete Sacrifice of the Mass, including the Eucharist, which heaven forbid, might make someone feel “left out” or hurt their little “feelings”? Can anyone tell me what happened? If what I saw was really what happened, surely Mother Mary is weeping in Heaven over it.
Was what you watched the consecration of the altar?
I didn’t watch, so I don’t know. I do see ciboria placed there on the altar, so I’m assuming it was a Mass?
I can’t bear to look at that altar!
No, it wasn’t the consecration of the altar that I was watching; it was the opening ceremony of the cathedral, where the bishop with the crozier used it to bang on the doors before opening them, then entering in and leading a ceremony of “solemn prayer” with many world leaders and various dignitaries, including many of the workers who labored to complete the restoration. I was hoping this was going to be a Mass, but it was not - it was the first half of the Mass - only! I don’t know what it was supposed to be, but it wasn’t what I was hoping it was going to be! 😳😭
I keep wondering if that “altar” is supposed to represent the Church as a Ship - that’s sort of what it looks like, I guess? 🤷♀️
I wish they had built a beautiful old-fashioned Traditional altar, with Christ in the tabernacle on the altar - I keep wondering where the tabernacle is, too. What world is this we’re living in now?!
I will address these shapes!! Maybe in our podcast this week. It's not a ship. It's nothing found in life!
The Masons also bang on the door.
Is the priest a Jedi knight, able to make the Force shoot through his hand without contact? Or must he not rather hold the bread in order to consecrate it?
I wonder if there is a defect of form going on with the air-consecration performed by the concelebrants. Perhaps Dr. K can let us know.
I’d love to know more about the difference between the theology/practice of concelebration in the Novus Ordo and the Byzantine Divine Liturgy, as the latter is an apostolic rite which allows for concelebration, although the iconostasis makes the optics of it profoundly different (I.e. less obvious to the laity). (What I don’t mean to suggest is that there’s necessarily a place for it in the Roman Rite even if there is in the Byzantine; there’s a great deal of room for liturgical diversity, and that means respecting the Rites for what they are—with respect to the Roman rite, it seems concelebration has gone hand in hand with a diminishment of the hierarchical celebration of a High Mass with priest, deacon, and subdeacon, even when the latter two offices are filled by priests).
The most thorough treatment I have read on the subject is here: https://www.newliturgicalmovement.org/2021/08/eucharistic-concelebration-theological.html
I don't know that Bishop Schneider goes into the differences too much, but the context of the Novus Ordo conception is clearly not traditional.
This is great—a lot of depth here. Agreed!